buying a sonex
Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2021 8:43 am
by philb
hi all i am thinking of buying a sonex having flown rand kr2 ,the one i m looking at is a 2180 vw version but
1 what would be take off distance 1 up 2 up roughly is it shortest using flaps .
2climb rate roughly 1 up 2 up
3.is cruise about 120 mph ish
4 is there anything to look for engine or airframe wise obviosly oil pressure
5 is it fitted with 500x5 tyres as i am wanting to go into grass fields
6 what is the brake set up is it independant hydraulic
7flying wise any vices
8 what are the stall characteristics
tia phil
Re: buying a sonex
Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2021 11:31 am
by BRS
I’d like to echo these questions.
Since I’m getting close to the end of a renovation but having not yet flown a Sonex. No doubt there is a first flyer info thread someplace with these answers.
.
.
.
-To my American friends…
H A P P Y 4TH of July.
Let’s keep Independence a daily exercise and not a once a year thought.
Re: buying a sonex
Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2021 1:15 pm
by tx_swordguy
I fly a jabiru 3300 sonex so some of this is going to correspond and some won’t. 2 up figures will depend very much on size of said individuals. If i at 190 fly with my buddy who is 210 it is going to fly noticeably heavy. Climb will be about 500 fpm. As a single i can get about 1000 fpm but i almost never go higher than about 4k mgl. Unless it is really rough. If i fly with my 140 lb son it flies much better. The airframe is very strong so it will take it. The jab is 120 hp the 2180 is going to be 80-85. Take off roll 500 ish i think, 2 up noticeably longer. Stalls are pretty straightforward no unruly problems and happens around the 40 mph mark and are easy to pull out of by dropping the nose. Spins are a bit harder to make happen but very slow nose high and controls to the left will make it happen very fast. 120 cruise is a pretty accurate number some will say 160 in the jab but for me that is unrealistic. I usually cruise on lower end rpm and see 125-130 and will see 140 on upper end. Very easy airplane to fly. I had hell figuring my landings out until i sat on the runway and put a mark on the inside of my canopy to show the horizon/runway relation to my 3pt stance. Prior to that i always tail hooked my landings which was something i was trying to correct. 5.00x5 tires should be ok on smooth turf, rough turf you might go slightly bigger or at least take the wheel pants off if doing it regularly. Brakes you get all different setups.Others may chime in with other points especially airframe and engine wise. I went straight from a high wing avid flyer to the sonex without transitioning and it was not an issue.
Re: buying a sonex
Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2021 4:51 am
by philb
very useful info many thanks 1000 fpm on jab so 2180 maybe 800 fpm 1 up ,2 up maybe about 300 400fpm depending on weight does using flaps get u off the ground faster or shorter it sounds like they do are ur figs using flaps or clean also what prop areu using diam and pitch and make please best phil
Re: buying a sonex
Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2021 6:31 am
by GraemeSmith
Stalls are conventional and straightforward if you avoid cross controlling.
Re: buying a sonex
Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2021 4:47 pm
by philb
interesting vid has it got washout in the wing cos it looks as though it has --or a different section at root to tip ?
Re: buying a sonex
Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2021 5:10 pm
by GraemeSmith
philb wrote:interesting vid has it got washout in the wing cos it looks as though it has --or a different section at root to tip ?
No -normal stall progression for a Hershey Bar wing. I learned something too from those tests, this forum and then doing some research.
StallProgression.png (47.52 KiB) Viewed 4615 times
Re: buying a sonex
Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:02 pm
by SP1
If you’re going into grass fields, then a taildragger may be your choice in terms of landing gear. I’ve been told, but didn’t find any documentation on it, then it is not advisable to operate a tri gear routinely on grass.
I haven’t flown a taildragger sonex, but I hear they are quite benign. I’m currently building a tri-gear, but all the comments make me think I should build it as a taildragger to eke out more top speed and expand runway types.Appreciate hearing people’s comments on this statement.
Grame,
Really liked your video!
Re: buying a sonex
Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 6:34 pm
by Matt541
Welcome Phil!
I honestly don’t have enough time in mine yet to quote performance figures. But here’s a good video with his particular performance claims on his grass strip:
YMMV
On that, watch as many Sonex/ Waiex walkaround videos as you can before pulling the trigger on one. I recommend videos by Mike Smith and Jeff Shultz (podcast too.) I actually watched Mike’s video in full the morning of looking at 541. Keep doing what you are now by researching all you can on this forum. Kit Log sites can reveal even more about what went into the airplane you’re considering. (Again, Mike’s is very good.)
If possible, I think it’s good practice to see multiple aircraft of the same type in person as well. Although these are kits or scratch built from very good plans, no two Sonexes are exactly the same. It all depends on the builder/ previous owner and how the equipped and maintained each individual aircraft.
(And Brock, very true!)
Re: buying a sonex
Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:29 pm
by Skippydiesel
Hi All,
I have about 10 years experience in owning/maintaining a Rotax 912 ULS motivated composite aircraft but no experience in aluminium aircraft (Sonex)
I am currently looking at a 2019 (build) Sonex Legacy/912ULS, tail dragger, with a view to purchase.
I have found a KitPlains article on Sonex pre purchase inspection and the list of Sonex Service Bulletins, both of which are very informative.
I hope to view this aircraft in about 2 weeks time, so would very much appreciate any information/guidance, from experienced Sonex owners/builders, on what what aircraft specific points/areas to inspect, information to obtain from the owner, etc.
My thanks in anticipation of a flood of great information.
Re: buying a sonex
Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:31 pm
by GraemeSmith
See this post about how I did it:
viewtopic.php?f=67&p=47682#p47554
Re: buying a sonex
Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:40 pm
by Scott Todd
I always recommend potential buyers take a third party with them on pre-buy’s. They are not emotionally or financially attached in any way and often provide objective opinions. Sellers will skew discussions towards a sale and the new excited buyer will often hear what they want to hear instead of what they need to hear.
Members, especially new ones, should also put a location in their signature, profile, or something, especially on these kinds of posts. It might make a local builder/owner offer assistance easier.
Re: buying a sonex
Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:00 pm
by Skippydiesel
Great stuff Graeme - enjoyed every word of your Sonex purchase BUT would like a lot more detail on the peculiarities of Sonex (all aircraft have them) that I should look out for.
The Sonex in my sights, will be the fourth aircraft (first Sonex) I have inspected with a view to purchase. Came close to purchasing every one, last hurdle revelations/problems saw me walk away.
My modus operandi is to draw up a chart of all points of interest.
I start with the obvious details: Name & Contact Details of seller, then move on - Make- Model - Year - airframe serial no - registration - Engine make, hours, SN, Prop - etc. etc.
List Service Bulletins Accident history - maintenance (major/minor) - etc etc
I divide up/list the aircraft into it components & inspect methodically all “bits” make comments accordingly eg Left Wing Upper… Left Wing Lower… Pitot/Static tube – Aileron… Flap…
I engage the service of an aircraft mechanic (L2 or higher here in Australia).
I try for the advice/insights of a mentor, experienced in the Make/Model - that’s where I am at now.
Re: buying a sonex
Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 9:47 am
by philb
well found that vid says loads and now lots to think about 500x5 wheels a defo need
Re: buying a sonex
Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 3:14 pm
by tx_swordguy
Philb, my jab uses a prince p prop dont remember the numbers on it. My sensenich prop gave me better climb slightly but the prince loads the engine up better and keeps my egt and cht down better than the sensenich. As far a a tri gear a friend of mine built a tri gear waiex and flew mostly off grass with wheel pants. Im sorry but dont know the size tires. He did say he keeps the nose off in landing until it cant stay up anymore. He was very aware of keeping the weight off his nose wheel as much as possible. That said he never had a problem, but the turf was better than average and he sold it with only about 150 hrs on it . For occasional grass i think tri gear is fine but might look into conventional if doing it all the time. I personally think they look better as tail wheel.
Re: buying a sonex
Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:24 am
by Skippydiesel
Sooo! Sonex has no unique characteristics/flaws that a buyer might want to look for???
Surely there are informed owners out there, who can comment/advise on Sonex / Rotax 912 ULS pre purchase inspections.