Sonex vs Rans s7 for abinitio fixed wing addon
Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2023 6:28 pm
by sessdriver
Hello.
If anyone has an informed opinion on pros/cons between Sonex taildragger and Rans S7 as a training
vehicle for a fixed wing addon for a Helicopter/rotorcraft guy we’d appreciate it.
Regards,
s
Re: Sonex vs Rans s7 for abinitio fixed wing addon
Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2023 9:33 am
by GraemeSmith
You going for PPL or Sport Pilot?
If PPL - be tougher to find a Sonex equipped for night flight.
Even harder is finding a CFI prepared to give transition (never mind some primary) training. The cockpit layout of a lot of Sonex are not friendly to the CFI being able to take full control easily.
–
Can’t speak for Rans.
Re: Sonex vs Rans s7 for abinitio fixed wing addon
Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2023 11:10 am
by roberto51it
Hello, I actually have a Rans S7 and am building a Sonex legacy, so don’t know about the Sonex how is it to fly; but can assure that the S7 is very docile and a very good trainer, is much slower than a Sonex a very forgiving. Don’t think about a Sonex as an abinitio taildragger.
Roberto from Italy
Re: Sonex vs Rans s7 for abinitio fixed wing addon
Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2023 12:06 pm
by sessdriver
GraemeSmith wrote:< in part >
You going for PPL or Sport Pilot?
Can’t speak for Rans.
This is PPL. Those real issues you mention are being addressed independently, meaning
I was planning on making controls suitable for dual and had forgotten about the lighting.
Current thinking is to obtain one of those aircraft and then let the
peer pressure begin, but if Sonex is a terrible first tailwheel experience our path is longer.
We have grass and paved runways but uncertain if the Sonex will be happy on grass,
so that’s another issue.
Regards,
s
Re: Sonex vs Rans s7 for abinitio fixed wing addon
Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2023 12:10 pm
by sessdriver
roberto51it wrote:Hello, I actually have a Rans S7 and am building a Sonex legacy, so don’t know about the Sonex how is it to fly; but can assure that the S7 is very docile and a very good trainer, is much slower than a Sonex a very forgiving. Don’t think about a Sonex as an abinitio taildragger.
Roberto from Italy
Roberto-
Do you have any advice on long versus short S7? I’m told they lengthened it at some
point and I don’t know how that affects suitability as a training machine.
Thanks very much for the info.
s
Re: Sonex vs Rans s7 for abinitio fixed wing addon
Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2023 12:41 pm
by Bryan Cotton
My Waiex is happy on grass. With center ‘sport trainer’ controls the Waiex is good for instruction. Is it the best? Probably not. My son is getting a bunch of experience in the airplane. If only I was a CFI!
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxx4 … yaGCd4gFp7
I did it the other way around. SEL followed by a rotorcraft-helicopter add on.
Re: Sonex vs Rans s7 for abinitio fixed wing addon
Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2023 1:21 pm
by GraemeSmith
Sonex are not wild about it being used on grass. But if you fit 5x5.00 tires on the mains and the bigger solid tailwheel it improves things a lot.
Re: Sonex vs Rans s7 for abinitio fixed wing addon
Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2023 2:48 pm
by Bryan Cotton
GraemeSmith wrote:Sonex are not wild about it being used on grass. But if you fit 5x5.00 tires on the mains and the bigger solid tailwheel it improves things a lot.
Confession: the grass at my home airport is pretty nice. I’ve been to Cottonwood also, and that is grass. Stock wheels and I thought it was great.
Re: Sonex vs Rans s7 for abinitio fixed wing addon
Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2023 10:55 am
by N190YX
Disagree about a Sonex/Waiex taildragger not being a good candidate for training. With the positive control of the tailwheel, they are not squirrelly but have very positive directional control (with the tailwheel on the ground). So stable compared to the Cessna 170 (taildragger) I used to own.
Re: Sonex vs Rans s7 for abinitio fixed wing addon
Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2023 11:56 am
by Bryan Cotton
N190YX wrote:Disagree about a Sonex/Waiex taildragger not being a good candidate for training. With the positive control of the tailwheel, they are not squirrelly but have very positive directional control (with the tailwheel on the ground). So stable compared to the Cessna 170 (taildragger) I used to own.
I agree with this. Definitely a forgiving machine.
I would say it is not the ideal trainer for everybody. Very light controls. My kid is doing well with them but will probably be ruined for flying any spam cans. Also, it is a very tight cockpit. Whoever is not flying has to pull their inside hand away from the throttle so the other person can work it. You can see that on all our pattern videos. Also the aircraft is very light in pitch and very easy to have excursions in airspeed on final. The light controls will be no problem for a helicopter jock.
On the other hand, I think my kid will have an easy time in a Cessna when he finishes his rating. And the low power of the Aerovee is awesome for training. You have to know your performance, plan your takeoffs, and fly your speeds accurately.
We burn about 2gph in the pattern - that’s almost free!
Cross country in calm conditions is awesome. The airplane trims up hands off, at least for moments at a time. In bumpy conditions you have to work hard. That’s also good training.
So I think it is good, but not the perfect trainer for everybody.
Re: Sonex vs Rans s7 for abinitio fixed wing addon
Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2023 3:54 pm
by DCASonex
I do not know about the Rans S7, but learned to fly in a Luscomb 8A way back in the dark ages, and the Sonex is much easier to take off, fly, and land.
If using a grass strip for a significant portion of your landings, do go with the larger tire size.
David A.
Re: Sonex vs Rans s7 for abinitio fixed wing addon
Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:43 am
by builderflyer
One factor not yet addressed which makes the Sonex less suitable for use as a primary trainer is the substantial number of pilots who have bent their titanium landing gear. A hard landing, something student pilots may do too frequently, and the titanium rods will bend. I believe even one of the commentors on this topic may have bent his landing gear, and he wasn’t a student at the time if I recall correctly. Just my opinion.
Art,Sonex taildragger #95,Jabiru 3300 #261
Re: Sonex vs Rans s7 for abinitio fixed wing addon
Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2023 11:53 am
by Bryan Cotton
builderflyer wrote:One factor not yet addressed which makes the Sonex less suitable for use as a primary trainer is the substantial number of pilots who have bent their titanium landing gear. A hard landing, something student pilots may do too frequently, and the titanium rods will bend. I believe even one of the commentors on this topic may have bent his landing gear, and he wasn’t a student at the time if I recall correctly. Just my opinion.
Art,Sonex taildragger #95,Jabiru 3300 #261
Excellent point Art. One of the things I was worried about. We have had some pretty ugly landings, so I would say it is not as fragile as I thought but I don’t think it can match a C152. Or a PA12 which I really tested hard as a new student.
Re: Sonex vs Rans s7 for abinitio fixed wing addon
Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2023 4:34 pm
by Kai
After all, the rods are not that difficuilt to replace should old Murphy be hitching a ride. So IMHO better that the Rods bend than that the engine mounts starts deforming or cracking. I would speculate that the tri-gear are somewhat more resilient here.
But then again, anything will bend if dropped in hard enough. As an aside I´ve seen several of the excellent Vans designs with their steel rod mains looking like they were halfway up in some retraction mode.
Back in the days when I was still young and beautiful, I got my taidragger endorsement in an L4 (rather similar to the S7), after which I never had the slightest problem putting the Sonex down, be it on (rough) grass or a hard runway.